- General
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Ideas
Planned changes for display shares under "My Stats"
The number of shares currently displayed in the "My Stats" section of each pool is currently exactly that, the number of submitted shares. To make it easier for miners to compare their contribution, I would like to change that to the value used by the payout system which would be the sum of all shares multiplied by their difficulty.
Example
Let's assume Miner A submits ten shares at difficulty 10. With the current system he would see "10" as his number of shares. Under the proposed system he would see 10 * 10 = 100. Miner B with a much weaker rig, submits 100 shares but at difficulty 1 which would also result in the value 100. As such their contribution to the block effort would be equal. Using a payout system without temporal variance this would result in both miners receiving an equal amount. With PPLNS which we use to prevent pool hopping, there would be a slight variance depending on when both miners submitted shares and whether one of them stopped mining at some point.
This change would be in line with what most other pools are using today. What do you think?
Customer support service by UserEcho
Sounds good. I would say maybe have a tooltip (like on the hash rate) that shows the actual shares from the miner and a short explanation that the figure is based on shares received multiplied by difficulty?
I think it's a step in the right direction. Shares mean nothing by themselves. I'd also like to see a rolling estimate of the number of shares*difficulty that would counted towards the round if a block were found right now. That way we could estimate our portion of the block reward
I agree. I was thinking about suggesting this as well, glad I didn't have the same thoughts.
Just a curiosity, does each share in your system have a timestamp that decides if the share is to be included in the PPLNS payout calculation?
By the explanation I see, it seems that all shares are placed on a Stack, and once a block is found, it pops all the shares of the the stack until a per-determinated point. Then, those popped shares are used to calculate which percentage of the reward each miner deserves.
Yeah that makes more sense than a timestamp.
Actually its both. The shares simply get sorted by date and get processed one by one in descending order. Here's the code that we are running when processing payouts: https://github.com/coinfoundry/miningcore/blob/master/src/MiningCore/Payments/PayoutSchemes/PayPerLastNShares.cs#L119
Why don't the shares reset after a block is found? Are there any use in shares found in a "previous" block?
Yes. It's explained here: https://poolmining.org/faq#payments. Pay attention to Round 2.
I've got two D3's which have mined a total of 6 blocks. Each giving 0.004 dash. Shouldn't the amount be different for each block (higher the more I've previously mined).
Depends on the round length. We had a couple of nightmare rounds (Block 784261 for example). Such rounds correspond to Round 5 in the FAQ.
Does the shares ever get "used up"? If not, then why is it better to have 1 million shares compared to 100 thousand? Sorry if these are stupid questions, I've read the FAQ, but I'm not quite getting it.
There are no stupid questions - offensive ones perhaps :-) Think of your shares of stack of papers where new ones constantly getting added to the top of the stack while the ones at the bottom slowly fade away over time.
This change has been implemented and is now live.
Giving this a bump as some people appear to be confused by the change.
So I see that shares are now being measured with a T following the share count. Does T stand for Tera-share, maybe?
T = Trillion, B = Billion, M = Million. Mouse-over to see the unformatted value.
WOW... I've now over 5 Trillion "shares"...
Okay i'm a Newbie - but this value has no relation for me :-/
Where (how) can i get a more "absolute" value for me how much 5 Trillion is?
I've read payout section, but ... i see (maybe TomatoesOnEyes) no relation between the 5 Trillion and a target value.
If this is not the right thread for that question... sorry... a short notice where i found more information will help me a lot, or some helpful keywords for google-search.
As I've outlined in my initial post, this change was made to make it easier for miners working on the same pool to compare their relative mining effort. The old value (total number of submitted shares) did not take difficulty into account which made the value meaningless for comparison. For example, you and your buddy Joe could have both accumulated 10000 shares, but his shares had a difficulty of 10 while yours only had difficulty 1. Joe would have worked ten times as hard which would not be obvious from the share count alone. The payout system of course does take share difficulty into account when calculating a miner's cut from the block reward.
Displaying the old value in the first place was cause for a lot of confusion around here and some people insisted that they were supposed to have earned just a much as miner X with roughly the same number of shares.
Further adding... the number of shares can't be easily and accurately represented in a coin value as this is not PPS (pay per share) pool, so in theory, it's possible not all of your shares will be counted for the reward calculation. See the FAQ for reasons. Maybe later in the future, the pool operator might give some more data to help you understand past payouts, as in no of silently dropped shares or so...
Okay, a short resume what i understand until now - surely not accurate, but i want to see the big picture:
=> Because there is no known value how many shares needed to complete the block and who found the share first on the way the complete the block and so on, no one can give me an more "absolute value" to compare my 5 T shares at this moment.
So the only way to get it is to wait until time X and see how big the reward was... did i got it?
You are more or less on the right track to grasping it. The difficulty is not necessarily only split by the port (3072 vs 3073) you are mining to. The difficulty is adjusted automatically by a "feature" called vardiff , so there can be several various difficulties.
PPLNS does not go to all the returned shares at time X, but only all the returned shares that fit within the last N shares ( = network difficulty * 2). Some shares might not fit, if it took the pool more than network difficulty * 2 to find the block. See round 5 in FAQ.